Mary Magdalene Tells All
Reviewer Mari Carlson Interviews Ursula Werner, Author of Magda Revealed
We can imagine today’s guest hosting one of those historical dinner parties with an invite list made up of the early Christian Church leaders responsible for diminishing the role of women in the Bible. We’re certain Ursula Werner would like to ask them dozens of probing questions but first and foremost, why the all-out smear campaign against Mary Magdalene? Why turn this close disciple of Jesus, the first disciple to see Christ after he rose from the dead—why the grand lie to recast her as a prostitute? She’s talking to you, Peter and Paul.
In Magda Revealed, Werner puts the historical record back in place, and presents an intensely spiritual, beautifully crafted reimagining of Jesus’ life, with heavy emphasis on his radical principles of equality and tolerance for all.
We caught wind of Magda after Mari Carlson’s glowing five-star Foreword Clarion review and worked quickly to connect author and reviewer for the following conversation.
As a piece of historical fiction, this novel pushes the envelope of accepted theology and biblical facts. Was the book’s reception what you expected, particularly from Christian readers?
When I set out to write this novel, I wanted first and foremost to be as faithful to history as possible. My aim was not to accept as truth everything that the Bible tells us about Jesus’ life, because: 1) the Bible was written by men, and 2) the books that ultimately made it into the New Testament were not the only books around that contained accounts of Jesus’ life and teachings. I did a lot of work on the historical Jesus, using techniques relied upon by historians to determine which stories in the New Testament are likely to be true and which are not.
Given that approach, I didn’t expect my book to be embraced by evangelical Christian readers (i.e., those who accept everything the Church tells them without question, or who think the Bible is the “word of God”). Sure enough, it wasn’t. One reviewer, for example, criticized the book for its “reduction of Christian theological categories.” That comment completely missed the point—Jesus would never have created “theological categories” of Christianity, in which some people are placed in positions of authority over others.
That being said, I was surprised at the extraordinary sanctity of Jesus as a mythological figure, and the refusal of some Christian readers to consider exploring any alternative image of Jesus derived from history. Some people, I learned, don’t want to know anything that detracts from Jesus as a symbolic deity. Any discussion, for example, about Jesus as a sexual being is taboo to them.
I try to be respectful of people’s beliefs, because everyone has a right to their own thoughts. That’s what tolerance is all about. Yet I have a hard time accepting the squeamishness around Jesus’ sexuality, because I see it as stemming from years of Church indoctrination. God never declared sex or sexual feelings impure. No one is disturbed to read in the Bible that Jesus ate and drank like other humans. Or that he slept. I don’t see how sex, as a God-given human instinct, is any different from those human needs. No, it’s the Church that labeled sexual desire “bad” or “sinful.”
I hope that the book will resonate with all open-minded readers who are looking for a good story. In its early rollout, Magda Revealed was positively received by younger generations—young women in particular seemed to like modern Magda’s snarky voice and her irreverent viewpoint. Older readers were occasionally bothered by the tonal disconnect between devout first-century Magda and the present-day Magda, who watched Earth evolve over the past 2000 years.
Of the many things your book is—a revisionist portrayal of early Christianity, a romance, a story of women friends, a supernatural account of miracles—how would you shelve it? What is it first and foremost for you?
As you’ve noted, there are many library shelves that Magda Revealed would happily live on. For me, the two categories that are the best fit are “feminist revisionist history” and “spirituality.” As to the first, it still blows me away that the Catholic Church got away with burying the critical role Mary Magdalene played (being the first disciple to see the risen Christ), and recasting her as a lowly prostitute in need of redemption. What chutzpah! Notably, the three gospels that experts consider most historically accurate—Matthew, Mark, and Luke—all state that Mary was the first person to see Jesus resurrected. Terrified that this narrative would give a woman too much prominence, the Church quickly debased and diminished her, turning her into a whore.
Very few people know that Mary Magdalene was one of Jesus’ closest disciples, the “apostle to the apostles.” Nor do they know that there exists an entire trove of alternative gospels that never made it into the New Testament. These other gospels, which include a Gospel of Mary Magdalene, present a picture of an early Christian community that was more diverse and inclusive than the four gospels that the Church subsequently declared “canonical.” (As an example of the kind of airtight, irrefutable evidence used to establish the prominence of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, we have the following statement by Bishop Irenaeus in 170 AD: “There actually are only four authentic gospels. And this is obviously true because there are four corners of the universe and there are four principal winds, and therefore there can only be four gospels that are authentic.”)
Personally, I like to categorize Magda Revealed as a spiritual book, because it articulates for me the true spiritual principles that Jesus was trying to teach—radical equality and radical tolerance. I use the word radical because Jesus’ message was radical, for his time and ours. If you accept his premise that all human beings are essentially the same and that we should all love and tolerate each other, then any society that creates and perpetuates power hierarchies is inherently suspect. Inequalities based on race, ethnicity, gender identification, economic class, or any other category are not acceptable and must be eradicated.
But no such society exists in our modern world. We would have to dismantle what we have created over the history of humankind and start over. (Small spoiler alert ahead!) That’s why, at the end of the novel, Yeshua asks Magda to go to the Source and check out its weapons collection.
Did your research confirm your suspicions about Magda? Did you rely more on research or on imagination to characterize her?
Unfortunately, very little is known about the historical Mary of Magdalene, other than: 1) she was from Magdala, a small city on the Sea of Galilee; 2) she was “possessed of seven demons,” and Jesus cured her; 3) she was a follower of Jesus; and 4) she was the first person to see the resurrected Jesus. But we get some picture of the kind of woman she likely was through the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and other alternative gospels.
My Magda character is founded upon the picture of her created by these other gospels, but I’ve embellished her through my imagination. So, for example, I believe the real Mary Magdalene must have been a strong woman, to leave behind everyone she knew and join Jesus as a folower, especially in first century Galilee. But I made up my own story to explain the “seven demons” that supposedly possessed her, based upon what I knew about the society she lived in. Similarly, I used what I knew about anointing as a woman’s practice in the first century to flesh out Magda’s evolution into a spiritual healer.
Interestingly, the plot revelation, or “twist,” at the end of the novel came to me entirely out of the blue, while I was on a run through Rock Creek Park. I’m convinced that twist came straight from the story gods.
The Yeshua, Magda, Mary, Peter, and others you describe are not icons or caricatures of well-known figures. They come across as relatable people. How did you develop them? Did you base them on people you know, or did they develop as you learned more about them?
No, unlike the characters of my first novel, which were to some extent based upon my family members, none of the characters of Magda Revealed are based on people I know. (Although Paul does bear some resemblance to a professor I had in Oxford who was quite captivated with himself. He was, like Paul, follically-challenged.)
In writing about Jesus, the outline of the story and a rough sketch of the participants had already been given to me by history. I tried to imagine each of these characters in light of the few historical facts I had, and what I knew about the time and place in which they lived. I wanted them to come across as real people, not as myths or saints, because ultimately that’s who they were. Christians today think of Peter and Paul as saints because the Catholic Church has labeled them as such, but they were once humans like us, with human strengths and weaknesses. As such, they become far more interesting to write about and, I hope, to read.
Are Magda’s anointments and other healing strategies, including an all-inclusive love, compelling to you? Did she change your mind about alternative medicine practices or anything else?
Learning about the widespread practice of anointment in first century Judea, I felt sad that this beautiful tradition was abandoned over the centuries. In 21st century America, the closest thing to anointment that some of us experience is massage by a spa professional. Having experienced a handful of massages in my lifetime, I am a firm believer in the healing power of focused touch. For example, where massage facilitates relaxation, it can be instrumental in the management of pain, because our perception of pain is related to stress, anxiety, and tension.
Fun Fact: the idea to write a novel about Mary Magdalene came to me during a pedicure. I was reveling in the amount of care and attention the beauty technician was paying to my feet and toes—these gnarly appendages that I mistreat on a daily basis—and the image of biblical figures washing each other’s feet as a gesture of love popped into my head. (Believe me, having biblical figures pop into my head out of the blue was highly unusual.)
But the main reason that anointment came to play a big role in Magda Revealed is that much of the novel was written during the pandemic. During those three years, I watched people become increasingly isolated, initially out of necessity, but later out of habit and disinclination. The COVID epidemic made us reluctant to touch each other and to stand close to each other. Also during COVID, we were deprived of our normal social watering holes—bars, restaurants, workplaces, community centers—so we turned more to social media, which made people feel like they were connected without actually having to connect in real space and time. I don’t think we’ve broken that habit.
I wouldn’t say that my research about anointment changed my mind about alternative medical practices, because I’m accepting of them in general. My approach to healing is all-inclusive: use whatever is available—Western medicine, Eastern medicine, alternative medicine—unless and until it proves itself ineffective.
Talk about choosing the narrator. Magda’s subjective perspective resists the passed-down record, many written in an omniscient voice. Did you consider other ways of telling her story?
Magda had to be the narrator, because it was her voice (the present-day Magda, who narrates the prologue and epilogue) that I heard in my head from the very beginning of this project. Her voice was playful and mildly sarcastic, a little irritated and resentful at what’s happened to her reputation over the years.
That being said, while I had a clear picture of present-day Magda, I struggled initially with my first-century Magda character—was she pious? Rebellious? Quiet? Outspoken? Unlike present-day Magda, who seemed to be constantly chattering in my head, historical Magda felt elusive. Maybe I had to step outside Magda’s consciousness, I thought, to see her more clearly in the first century. But when I tried to rewrite the narrative in Galilee and Judea from an omniscient point of view, the result felt dull and lifeless.
My problem was solved by the brilliant writer Robert Anthony Siegel, with whom I’ve taken a number of writing classes. He posed two critical questions: what does Magda want and what is keeping her from getting it? Thinking those questions through gave me the clarity that I needed for Magda’s character, and ultimately her first-century voice, which is a combination of tenderness, thoughtfulness, and resolve.
The book’s premise is that Yeshua bids Magda to return to Earth because “the time is ripe” (prologue). What circumstances did you have in mind? Is the time ripe for a messiah?
Oh, if it’s not clear to you from our present circumstances that the time is ripe for an apocalypse and the complete reordering of society, then your head is in the sand. Circumstances like: the breakdown of the rule of law in our democracy (and others), the increasingly swift demise of our planet, the ever-widening global gap between rich and poor, our failure to care for each other … the list goes on. The problem is that we humans are far too good, collectively, at denying truth, especially if the negative consequences of our actions or inactions are farther off. We are a short-term species, if not by nature, then by centuries of habit. We don’t want to look very far down the road.
Yeshua sends Magda back to Earth because he sees that our civilization will come to an end unless something drastic is done. He also understands that humankind has become complacent and inert. Those who have the political power to effect change—for example, the kind of societal changes necessary to minimize the impact of global warming—have no incentive to do so because they benefit from the status quo. And everyone is ultimately looking out just for themselves and their loved ones, not for the greater good.
I’ve given fictional Magda the power to connect people together in a profound and meaningful way, that may allow them to work towards that greater good. But she will need something to shake the world up, get everyone to pay attention to her. I love to imagine what that might look like.
Some days, I dream of writing a sequel.
Magda Revealed
Ursula Werner
She Writes Press (Apr 8, 2025)
Clarion Rating: 5 out of 5
A message of love and equality is centered in Magda Revealed, a piquing alternative historical novel that reconstitutes a figure whose significance was buried in the Bible.
In Ursula Werner’s illuminating novel Magda Revealed, Mary Magdalene narrates her own experience of Jesus, correcting the biblical account.
As a young woman, Magda is punished for reciting sacred texts in the synagogue, revealing the yield of her parents’ tutelage. A traveling rabbi, Yeshua, heals Magda after years of ostracism by inviting her into his ministry. Magda travels with Yeshua and his other disciples, spreading his message of equality and love, anointing people, and learning. When Yeshua dies, he points the community of believers to Magda for leadership. But self-proclaimed leaders Peter and Paul destroy her written record of her own ministry.
Taking place after Yeshua invites Magda to return to earth to save humanity from the world’s current perils, the novel replaces the lost manuscript and serves a new, vital purpose. More than once, Magda states that her intent is to set the record straight, not to convince anyone of Yeshua’s miracles or divinity. She calls her account of Yeshua’s death in particular a “murder investigation,” implying a degree of objectivity. The self-confessed persuasive nature of the text invites the audience, addressed as “you,” to take the tale seriously. To believe Magda is to believe that her story is worthy, that humanity needs saving, and that she can help. This is an effective hook, a dare to engage—with an instruction not to be objective, but to either be convinced or not.
Magda is a captivating narrator with a trustworthy voice. Beginning with her studious youth, she is characterized by her openness to new ideas and willingness to devote herself to education. And her new book is up to date, referring to popular-culture figures and concepts. Magda and her friends tease each other, gossip, and laugh. Their conversations buoy and soften the high-stakes tone, as does Magda and Yeshua’s love. Their physical, spiritual, and intellectual affection embodies the book’s focus on relationships.
Relationships and connections drive the book forward; it adopts an accelerating, deepening pace. Its naming of locations brings the story ever closer to Yeshua’s death and resurrection, as well as to the site of Magda’s final confrontation with Peter and Paul, who herein take a backseat as mere annoyances. Themes of devotion and integrity are the book’s focus, not conflict, making Peter and Paul’s accusations against Magda all the more jarring. Positioned as not in keeping with Yeshua’s primary teachings of radical equality, Peter and Paul’s intrusions at the end also prove the need for Magda’s return, though.
Magda’s anointing skills are also second to the central message of love and equality. Prophetic visions Magda has while anointing people sparkle, ornamenting the text’s dominant record of the daily tasks of living in a community. Describing meals, work, sleeping arrangements, and childcare, Magda draws links between people’s common concerns across time and space. The rustic setting in fishing and farming villages grounds the story too; simple pleasures pervade it, as people are required to be vigilant in their attention to survival, threatened by events beyond their control.
A provocative novel, Magda Revealed is constructed as an alternative gospel that retells Jesus’s message with added contemporary relevance.
Reviewed by Mari Carlson
September 10, 2024
Mari Carlson
