Racism exists, of course. But why? Who benefits from denying Black people the same rights and respect as white people? Is there money to be made? In the nexus between corporate and political power, does a Racism Capitalization Complex actively fan the flames of white supremacy?

Hell, yeah! And Omekongo Dibinga is here to explain the way it works.

The author of Lies about Black People and a university professor, Omekongo is an expert on the terrible toll of racism on society but he’s also optimistic about the future BECAUSE of the young people he meets around the world.

Rachel Jagareski reviewed Lies for Foreword’s July/August 2023 issue and then pitched some thoughtful questions at Omekongo for the benefit of us all.

Your book tackles the serious and too often deadly consequences of entrenched stereotypes and lies about Black people, but does so with a positive tone and “from a poetic lens of love.” How do you personally find the strength and inspiration to remain upbeat and keep from being ground down by racism?

I find the strength and inspiration to remain upbeat by reminding myself that no matter what issues we are dealing with in 2023, we as human beings have been through worse. When you look at all of the challenges we are dealing with as a society such as homophobia, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, sexism, xenophobia, racism, and so much more, I constantly remind myself that it was worse in every prior decade going back hundreds of years. The people who fought in the aforementioned areas and eras fought for everyone to live in a world where they can be celebrated and not tolerated and had to deal with a lot more challenges than I did.

Speaking to racism specifically, things are challenging now but I am not enslaved. I am not living through Jim Crow, etc. I am living free off of the work that so many people did before me. I haven’t done anything to experience the freedoms I have now. What I am committed to doing therefore is making it so that 10, 20, 30, 50 or more years from now, someone may say that their lives are better because of the work I am doing today along with my fellow UPstanders. I owe that to our ancestors and freedom fighters.

Lastly, I am inspired by my three children and all the young people I speak to across the globe as a motivational speaker. I am excited to live in the world they are going to create and I want to help them build it sooner!

In your useful glossary and throughout the text you stress the importance of replacing terminology that is disempowering for certain people and for continuing to review our personal vocabulary and learn more inclusive and respectful ways of referring to others. What are some successful ways for pointing out outdated and disempowering labels in our interactions with others without shutting down the conversation?

I LOVE this question!

One of the best ways is to not call people out directly on the spot, especially if you’re in public with said person. As human beings, we are so quick to want to save face that it prevents us from just admitting that we were either wrong or simply accept new information. Now mind you, there is a difference between a word that sounds disempowering versus a word that may no longer be appropriate (some words can be both). For example, calling people “people of color” (a term I don’t agree with) is primarily a descriptor for non-white people, but calling them “minorities” means smaller than. It’s disempowering and not true, given that Black & Brown people make up a global majority. Calling someone “disabled” is a term subtractive of someone’s human’s potential and fails to look at how society disables people who are “differently abled.”

Having said that, I’m aware that many who are part of these two groups, for example, have no problems using these terms. I am not the gatekeeper. I am just a strong believer in words and the impact of words consciously and subconsciously.

In terms of how to have this discussion, it’s important to pull someone to the side and ask them about their language choice. Be prepared that YOU might be the one who is using inappropriate terminology! Furthermore, it may be better in some instances to ask questions rather than come off as the teacher. For example, I know people who still use the term “oriental” when referring to Asian people. Rather than say something like “Oriental is a rug, not a person!,” you could ask: “Where did you learn that term? Do you realize that the terminology has changed over the years?” Ask questions that require the other person to think if they care to. Some people won’t care to.

Lastly, you may need to let the conversation finish and circle back to this later, especially if you’re dealing with a co-worker, partner, or someone else you may see on a regular basis. I have found that most people are interested in not offending people intentionally and so they will be in a position to listen.

A resurgence of racist language and actions seems to be a poisonous by-product of America’s increasing polarization along geographic, political, and cultural lines. Do you attribute this to an organic backlash after President Obama’s election? Or do you see emboldened racism as something more planned by financial and political elites?

It’s both. The rise of the Tea Party and its racist rhetoric can be directly tied to Obama’s election. As I quote Glenn Singleton in the book, many white people who never worked with a Black person, had to overnight prepare to have their country be led by one. His election not only led to a rise in racist rhetoric by those in and outside of political spaces but also to an increase in white racist extremist groups and militias. Trump seized on this dynamic and exploited it. He used the culture wars and fear politics to rise to power.

Just like the end of the Civil War, financial and political elites took advantage of the climate. At the end of the Civil War, poor white people and formerly enslaved Africans were rebuilding the South together. That’s why it was called Reconstruction. The wealthy white elites feared those two communities working together and created an incentive structure centered around the benefits of whiteness. That’s what led to the creation of Jim Crow, which lasted about a hundred years. The idea of “I may be poor but at least I’m not Black” was part of the incentive that turned poorer whites against Black people, so in short, we’re seeing history repeat itself.

You point out that racism hinders every American, like your astute commentary about how ineffective handling of the 1980s crack epidemic (largely affecting Black urban folks) prevented development of a health infrastructure to deter today’s opioid epidemic (largely affecting white rural folks). You also discuss how racism has pernicious effects on overall American civic unity, economic development, and scapegoating of various ethnic and gender groups. Why do you think this message hasn’t been more widely proclaimed by national political and civic leaders?

I would argue that this message has indeed been proclaimed by many national political and civic leaders. Obama definitely did. Biden is definitely doing it now. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg often talks about how racism has been literally built into America’s infrastructure. People like Senator Cory Booker and Reverends Al Sharpton (National Action Network) and William Barber II of the Poor People’s Campaign and SO many others have discussed this as well as many others like Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

The challenge is that the media does not cover their stories. The media is more likely to cover a crisis when it happens like the opioid epidemic but have you ever seen a deep dive story on the root causes of the epidemic? When the crack epidemic was happening, the media and many politicians focused on criminalizing addiction but even then, there were leaders speaking up like Congresswoman Maxine Waters about the need to have a humanistic approach but too often, Black people don’t get that benefit.

Lastly, going back to question number three, many other leaders have a vested economic interest in the politics of division. They make money off of keeping people separated and if they can keep people under them fighting, they (the elites) can keep profiting. As President Lyndon B. Johnson said, “if you can convince the poorest white man that he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t realize you’re picking his pocket. Give him someone to look down on and he’ll empty his pockets for you” (paraphrasing). Mal-intentioned leaders profit off of division, and those who stay divided do not realize they have more in common than they do that separates them until it’s too late, as with the opioid crisis as well as unemployment during the great recession. If Black unemployment was treated properly, whites would not have suffered as much during the great recession. I could cite so many examples of this but on to the next question!

I loved how your book mixes text, interviews, personal anecdotes, activity sidebars, and your own poetry. Do you use a similar blend of techniques in your university classroom? If so, what style seems to resonate most with your students?

Absolutely! What resonates most with them is the poetry and personal anecdotes. You know how they say kids don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care? Well that’s how it is with my students. They’re already smart. They’re already great writers and readers. As a professor, I have to bring it home. I have to tie it all together and I cannot do that by doing a straight lecture, especially in classes that are two hours and forty-five minutes straight!

Professors also have a tendency to come off as if they don’t have any real life challenges and that they’ve got it all figured out. They’re so … academic! Students today need to know our struggles. They need to hear that we struggle with these complex issues too.

Lastly, through my work in K-12 schools as a diversity, equity, and inclusion trainer, as well as a classroom teacher, I’ve spent years studying the diverse ways students learn today and I bring it all into the classroom. I love teaching! They also love how in the last class, I tell them that school is a waste of time if they don’t make a life that has meaning to themselves and others! They were taught to only find a career and not a calling. I teach them to find a calling and make it a career! And on a random note, you should sit in on my class on JAY-Z!

One of your chapters dissects the myth that Black people feel less pain than others and specifically looks at the unacceptable disparities in maternal and other health care for Black women. You note that even tennis legend Serena Williams almost died from blood clots during her pregnancy and now we have the recent childbirth death of Olympic track medalist Tori Bowie to reckon with. What are some ways you think this public health emergency should be addressed?

First and foremost, listen to Black women. Listen to Black people! More specifically, those in the medical profession need to engage in a serious retraining of their practices and schools where future doctors and nurses are now need to conduct a diversity audit and revise their practices and instruction too. Recent surveys of nurses and doctors have shown that there is a belief that Black people can endure more pain. These are professionals with degrees and training yet still have these beliefs. There are people like myself who do this DEI work and Black medical professionals (doctors, nurses, etc.) who can speak to this but Black voices have not been centered when it comes to their own health.

The paternalistic “I know what’s good for you” mentality is killing Black people. The medical profession is where we find the most ignorance and it’s based on arrogance because of this paternalistic mindset. I also believe that hospitals and medical facilities should suffer penalties if the death rates of Black women continue to remain at a disproportionate rate. As much as I’d like to hope that humanity will help those in the medical profession see the light, it’s unfortunately financial and legal consequences that will change practices. As the late Johnnie Cochran said, hit people in their pocketbooks and their hearts and minds will follow!

I notice that there seems to be more progressive, anti-racist messaging and advocacy promoted by certain corporations than there has been by actions of the federal branches of government. Would you agree or not, and why?

Corporations have less accountability to the people and the federal branches of government are too divided to take substantive action. Corporations are accountable to their boards and customers who demand action. If you look at the House & Senate, they can’t even unanimously agree on honoring Capitol Hill security guards who saved their lives on January 6th. Can you see them issuing a statement for Black Lives Matter? Biden introduced Juneteenth as a national holiday last year and look at the blowback he is getting from the House and Senate. Lastly, look at the Supreme Court and … well, I don’t have to go further.

The challenge, however, with corporations is that they talk a good game but few deliver. Fewer deliver consistently. For example, Major League Baseball moved their All-Star game from Georgia over voter suppression issues but voter suppression continues there and MLB is still there. Companies like Toyota will make a statement on valuing diversity after George Floyd was murdered but then will continue to give money to Republican politicians who espouse racist ideas and introduce racist laws. Lastly, after Floyd was murdered, close to $50 billion was promised to Black causes. About $45 billion was distributed in ways the companies could profit from (loans, investments, mortgages), but only about $70 million went to organizations dealing with criminal justice reform. So, in reality, much of what corporations do is performative. We need more action from all the branches of government.

Rachel Jagareski
August 4, 2023

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